Smart Sex, Smart Love with Dr Joe Kort

Buck Dodson on How to Master Midlife as a Gay Man

April 20, 2021 Season 2 Episode 82
Smart Sex, Smart Love with Dr Joe Kort
Buck Dodson on How to Master Midlife as a Gay Man
Show Notes Transcript

How do you master midlife as a gay man? Do you see it as a time of crisis, or a time of new beginnings? Do you feel confused or empowered? Are you disoriented or excited?

During a Smart Sex, Smart Love podcast, Buck Dodson, board certified life coach and licensed psychotherapist, talks about the core steps you can take to make this second coming out full of new possibilities, fewer problems and a real sense of freedom and authenticity.

It is time to design your best midlife! As a gay man, you got a jump start when you came out of the closet and faced the challenge of discrimination, homophobia, exclusion and learning how to live in an often unaccepting heterosexual world. You had the “Gay Advantage.” Our lives as gay men essentially start over twice – when we come out of the closet, and when we reach midlife. What we faced as gay men will influence our midlife journey in distinct and different ways. We found the courage once; we can find it again. Sadly, many of us don’t realize how prepared we are for the midlife journey, and feel we’ve reached the end of the road. We have not. We are stepping into a time of life to tune into our soul spark, to find clarity in our life, and begin expressing the true person we are meant to be. We are connecting with our deepest and most authentic self – finally! 

Midlife mastery is about lasting pleasure, deep connection and true fulfillment. It is time to step into yourself and find your purpose instead of living under the influence of society’s norms or parental influence. 

Unknown Speaker  0:04  
Welcome to smart sex smart love. We're talking about sex goes beyond the taboo and talking about love goes beyond the honeymoon. I'm Dr. Joe Cort. Thanks for tuning in.

Unknown Speaker  0:20  
Welcome to smart sex smart love. We're talking about sex goes beyond the taboo and talking about love goes beyond the honeymoon. Today we're going to be talking about mastering gay midlife. I'm happy to welcome buck Dotson, who will talk about how midlife for gay men is a second coming out. Life after the age of 40 not only for gay men, but for everyone is filled with so many possibilities and fewer problems. We should perceive this as a time of new beginnings to experience freedom from permission asking and following other people's rules and hiding behind our false self. midlife mastery is about lasting pleasure, deep connection and true fulfillment. bogg Dotson is a Board Certified life coach and licensed psychotherapist who has been helping women and gay men live with confidence, conviction and connection for over 15 years as a 40 something gay man. He's all in on helping clients master midlife by addressing unfinished business from their past, releasing themselves from perfectionism and overworking and cultivating their superpowers so they can start living with ease, giving and receiving the love they want, and sharing their gifts with the world. Buck is also the creator and host of Gay Men's life lab, the personal and relational growth growth podcast for gay bi and queer men. And finally, very soon he's launching mastering gay men, midlife, an online course and coaching journey for gay men ready to create an outstanding life after 40 welcome back.

Unknown Speaker  1:55  
Thank you, Joe. So happy to be here.

Unknown Speaker  1:58  
I'm so happy to have you here. And I thought I would start out with something I just was. So in 2012, this thing happened where a guy named I hope I'm gonna say his name, right. He was a therapist in Manhattan, New York, Bob Bergeron. And he started to write Do you know him? Do you know that name? Well, I know the story. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  2:17  
Oh, it's a horrible story.

Unknown Speaker  2:21  
Yeah, he had the same publisher that I had at the time. And it was the right side of 40 was his book. And it was all about gay men and midlife, which I was right in the middle of, and I couldn't wait to watch it. He had been making videos. And I was resonating with what he said. And then I actually learned this before the news learned this because my publisher called me and said, the book will not be published. He killed himself on an evening and left a note next to the book and said, This whole thing is a lie. And I remember, you know, I don't know the guy, I'm not going to totally make this up. But I stopped his Facebook page, I saw he was a sort of an a gay what we would call an a gay, maybe we could talk about what that means. But he only had the body. He had the friends, he had the circuit party. He was like, he was cheerful. He was handsome as hell. And I made this story up that he just couldn't, because I mean, in my mid life, things changed. Guys Stop looking at me. I was more invisible in bars. And I'm not an attractive guy. I'm not an a gay, I didn't have his body. But I'm good looking enough where I really could feel and I don't know where he was or where his head was at. But it was so painful to see the juxtaposition of, hey, we're going to midlife it's going to be okay. And then the next thing he kills himself. What are your thoughts?

Unknown Speaker  3:32  
Yeah, it's so yeah. And it's so tragic. And I actually, you know, going into this today, I thought, you know what, I might look up that because I remember that New York Times article, and, you know, yeah, I my sense is sometimes that we, you know, the want to create a life that, you know, would be more aspirational than what we're prepared to do. And perhaps, you know, what, Bob, I know, he was a therapist, and I know, he was this kind of, to your point, a gay and the New York Times article about him describing him as relentlessly cheery, yeah, that I think perhaps he overestimated the the difficulty and the pain and the loss that would, you know, he had to face at midlife that we all have to face him in life in order to then actually have the beautiful possibility filled midlife that he was aspiring to, and really wanting. So, you know, my sense is that maybe he hit a roadblock and realized, which is what so much of what my work is about, realize, oh, I've got to face some really difficult stuff. And that that just was maybe too much for him or

Unknown Speaker  4:50  
for him. And I really understand that your body changes you can't lose weight. The same way people look at you differently. Your clients change to even as a therapist, I've noticed my clients that you younger ones. While I see I've seen a lot but they my clients have ages I've aged. So there's there's lots of loss, but sadly, he's never going to see the good the positives, which I hope you and I are going to talk about today.

Unknown Speaker  5:11  
Exactly right. And I think that's what's so that's sort of the, the tragedy that's been the narrative for so long in our community. And I, you know, and this is not just for, you know, the gay and queer male communities, either, but certainly you and I know, as you're talking about, there's definitely an intense ageism in the Gay Men's community. So if we're not able to transition in the way that midlife calls us into, you know, into greater wisdom, into meaning into purpose, and let some of that go, then yeah, we're, we're never going to be able to, to live well. And so that's really what has been missing all along. And this idea that, you know, gay men, gay men over 40 it's sort of like the end of the road and the we should just, like, put ourselves out to pasture. You know, is I'm not okay with that.

Unknown Speaker  6:05  
I love that. And, you know, it used to be 30. Right, and queers. Now, it's 40. Thank God. But I'd like to hopefully think it's, it's 50. And people don't understand that, that a lot of the people that would have been maybe teaching us like you're doing bug like I'm trying to do have died of a yes, we lost a whole generation.

Unknown Speaker  6:23  
Yes, exactly. And I don't know if you've seen it's a sin on HBO max. But it is a short series about the beginning of the AIDS crisis, as it began to happen in London. And it just reminded me I watched it recently of like, Oh, this whole generation of men, that is not here to guide us. Yeah. And that is what so much of what I think gay midlife is about when I say mastering gay midlife and living an outstanding life that 100% includes what I like to say gaming it forward to the younger men, who you know, because you know, as a therapist, I mean, you've been a psychotherapist and a coach for, you know, I mean, pretty much your whole career. So you've been showing men teaching men facilitating men through loving men? Yes. Really giving them love that they haven't had that, you know, you've been doing this so long, you know? What is what it takes him what is possible when, when an older man or even a younger man, or men our age, shows us, hey, you're worth it. You're worthy. You're in you can live a great life. Yes. And

Unknown Speaker  7:33  
sadly what i said i've seen and I remember seeing this when I was young. So when I was younger, I was always attracted to older guys. Like Daddy, guys, we didn't use that word. But that's what I was attracted to. Then I got older, I became a daddy. And now I'm finding myself attracted to younger guys. But you know, and I, what's sad is younger, a lot of young guys, they don't want to learn from older guys. I always wanted to learn from older guys. I wanted to sit at their feet and listen to their stories, and hear the things that went on so that I could make a better life when I got to be their age. And I'm not saying all younger guys are like this. And I know the ones that are not vocal I how I go forward is I just live my life. I do my Tick tock, my sister social medias, I'm doing my best life. And if somebody wants to watch me and see it as a role model, I'm there for that. But if they're there, online, what you end up seeing is older men prey on younger men. And is it younger men can't prey on older men. It's just so sad to see that this device of this

Unknown Speaker  8:26  
it really is and that's why I love what you're doing and love that you are on Tick tock, you know, as a gay man at midlife and a therapist and coach because it's you are reaching those people even if you don't hear from those guys. Yeah, you know that you do have an impact. And they because I do I'm connected to some of the younger gay coaches and therapists on like Instagram, for instance. Yeah, and I feel like as the 44 year old, I'm sort of this like, wise elder. Just like kind of strange. Yeah, but, but for a lot of them, they are saying we we do want to hear from you guys. Good. We do want to learn from you all. You just may not hear that in the comments necessarily. No. And

Unknown Speaker  9:07  
and I mean, I want to make this known. I learned from them. I love younger men calling me out and saying, Hey, Joe, we don't say this anymore. Hey, Joe. You know, that's old fashioned. Like oh my god, tell me I'm an older guy. I don't nobody there was no bullets in a memo didn't go round.

Unknown Speaker  9:21  
Right? Exactly. Yeah, teach me Show me the right and you know in something on that with the younger men and I've actually talked to gay men in their 20s as well but like younger game and like gaming like in like, adolescence, teenagers. Apparently they're not having they're having a very different experience than even gaming in their 30s if they're not coming up with like the same shame and the same self doubt that we had. So it's really kind of cool. Very on that note of like, you know, what they can teach us about just like totally embracing who they are and being like, I don't care. I don't care what other people think. Of course, they're in a more supportive environment too. So

Unknown Speaker  10:03  
tell me why you would call it Why is it called midlife crisis? I like to say, midlife awakening. I don't know if you ever use that, but tell us?

Unknown Speaker  10:09  
Well, I would agree. Yeah, it's, um, well, I think that I just wanted to define what a crisis really is, first of all, which is just an experience or a period in our life that's so intense and difficult, that our usual coping strategies aren't enough to get us through. So we're just overwhelmed and often feel like we're breaking down, you know, because we don't know how to handle the stress of whatever that situation is. So whether that's, you know, a divorce or a death or, you know, a change in your own health or your own body, you know, or just whatever a significant change in your career lifestyle. This, it's some sort of event, where we just are called to, you know, grow through some sort of, we're emotionally overwhelmed. And we realize that, you know, something inside of us is going to have to evolve and expand, if we're going to face these new challenges that and I think as we get older, our challenges that we face become more complex, you know, they become more, we have to become more sophisticated in order to grapple with them. So I think the midlife crisis, quote unquote, is, you know, and not everybody identifies with going through a midlife crisis, but everybody can identify with going through a critical turning point in your life, when you realize that life as you've been approaching, it, is not likely going to fulfill you moving forward. So you want more. And usually, you know, to that point, you use a midlife awakening, it is realizing that there's a nagging, maybe curiosity inside of you or something, you want to bring forward, a voice inside of you that needs to be heard, a desire that needs to be manifest. Maybe just pleasure, to your point is a smart sex smart love, a pleasure that needs to be fulfilled, something inside of you, it's time that it needs to be out in the world. But that is scary.

Unknown Speaker  12:10  
Now, I would hear this before when I hear everything you're saying. And I know people are too. But I thought well, that's not going to be me. I'm I'm self actuated. I've been in therapy most of my life. And then I turned 5040 was great. But all my 40s I didn't feel midlife. I didn't even feel like I was getting older. Because I was writing my books, and I was super busy. Then I turned 50 and 50 was awesome. I loved turning 50 and then 5152 53. what started happening to me was, how many more summers do I have? How much more time do I have? Have I done everything I wanted to do? So I started to go to more Diana Ross concerts. I know, I sound like an older gay guy, but I am. And I started to drink a little bit more I never used to drink. I started to feel like I wanted to get my body in shape I started working out. So it's sort of organic. Would you agree?

Unknown Speaker  12:54  
100%. And I'm glad you bring up the timing of it. Because everybody's timing is different. You know, it's a for me it happened that actually started when I was around 38. You know, but so you're saying for you it was the realization came more in the early 50s. But yeah, it is it's a series, you know, it's so I don't think it's so much a crisis. It's just more sort of, like a period of a reckoning, you know, and sort of realizing, like, oh, there's more, there's more I have to do and want to do.

Unknown Speaker  13:26  
Do you specifically when you turn 38?

Unknown Speaker  13:29  
Yeah, well, my, what happened is my mom got cancer. And she, you know, she got cancer when I was 36. I got married when I was 34. She got cancer when I was 36 she died when I was 38. And that set me on and she was you know, as a lot of gay men. She was, you know, the apple of my eye. She was she was my family, you know, aside from my husband. And so when she died, I really it was, you know, this the despair that I had never faced before. But through that grief was a really, and it was excruciating, no doubt. But there was a freedom that came with realizing like, oh, okay, well, I guess it's on me. Now. I'm not like a boy anymore. And that's a big part of midlife. It's really about growing up and you talk about this in your books show, like growing from a boy to a man. That's when I realized like, oh, I've, I'm a man now. Like, I don't really have the choice anymore to like, go home and kind of okay, hang out, hang out at mom's house. I wish I did. But it was like you better become the man that you want to become. And also maybe that your mom would have wanted you to become and also that your mom didn't want you to become. Yeah, that was really freeing that I was like, You know what, I miss my mom, I love her. And I also get to do whatever the hell I want. Now, so that was really freeing, but then really the sort of thing that earthquake to me into midlife was my divorce. So the end of my marriage two years ago, and that we're in that was unexpected, honestly. I mean, we were together for 10 years, we did a lot of work together, we did struggle, but it was like, oh, like, this is over. I thought it was gonna be a married man, I thought I was like that guy. I was thought he was the guy who was gonna be married to, you know, my husband, who was my best friend and all that stuff. But that wasn't the case. So I really had to start soul searching. And through that excruciating pain, I was searching for meaning. I was searching for something that like, will help me understand why am I going through this? And why, you know, is there something that I can do to transform this into a next chapter and that's what I realized, like, Oh, I have to rebuild my life. I can either like I get depressed and just like wallow and like wither away and my sorrow. Or I can say, you know what, I have a second act in me. And I can, I can do whatever I want. Again, I'm not married. Now. I don't have a mom anymore. I'm gonna do whatever I want.

Unknown Speaker  16:10  
I love that second egg. So you talk about mastering midlife and that there are core tasks involved. Can you explain?

Unknown Speaker  16:16  
Yeah, absolutely. And I have to credit Dr. James Hollis, who wrote a he's written several books on midlife, but one that really touched me was it's called living an examined life. And he really says the overall core task at midlife, what midlife causes us to do is grow up, it's to finally grow up. So we do that through a series of tasks, you know, one of which is really to exercise the ghosts from our past. And he uses that language to kind of exorcise the ghosts. So we really need to address once and for all, whatever we're holding on to and carrying from the past, you know, sort of whatever traumas, whatever, demons, Catherine Woodward Thomas talks about outdated agreements, which I love. So you know, really looking at the past and, and finishing whatever is unresolved, and not that that can ever be perfect, but you know, what I, you know, addressing that stuff. The second thing for me is really, it's really about connection. So, you talked about being so busy, and writing your books and all that stuff. And I think that's sometimes what happens to us earlier, is we get in our career, you know, I wanted to build a super successful private practice, which I did. And then I realize it was my husband at the time, who was like, you don't have anything left for me, at the end of the day, like you are tapped out. And so sort of realizing I need to prioritize high quality connection over money and status and power. And then another piece is reclaiming our gifts. So, you know, I don't know, if you have any gifts from back in the day, I have clients tell me all the time, I wanted to become a screenwriter, I wanted to be a guitar player. So a lot of these gifts get buried, because people shame us early in life. Or tell us that's not practical, you can't be an artist, you got all these things that are really like expressions of our soul, kind of get buried. And so it made life, one of our tasks is to reclaim that, and kind of dig inside of us and say, You know what, I am going to be an artist. Now, I may still be an investment banker, or I may still work at Banana Republic during the day to make money. But I'm, I'm gonna make my art because that's what it's fulfilling to me. Yeah. And then finally, it's really about like, stepping into mastery. So really stepping into, like, I have agency over my life. And I have enough years of wisdom and experience to make whatever I want to make happen. And that is a real game changer for people is kind of consciously realizing that you have the power to do whatever you want to do. And I'm not just saying like, selfishly Do whatever you want to do, but just to make happen, like, fulfill your goals.

Unknown Speaker  19:04  
And what I like I can just sometimes hear people hearing both of us, you know, these white gay males talking like this, and we're privileged and with the money, and I don't think it takes privilege and money to access these kinds of things. Do

Unknown Speaker  19:16  
I so glad you bring that up? I don't know, does it help to have certain, you know, access and financial resources? Sure. But I'm talking about your soul. Yeah. So this doesn't involve in In fact, in many respects, I see as I work with gay men through the midlife process, they become less invested in things that require money or take money. You know, it's really about connection. It's about intimacy and talking about the rates. Yeah, how they, how they live their life, each day, being of service to people. So yeah, I think all of those things are not really about they sort of debunk this idea. that everything is about money, and status,

Unknown Speaker  20:05  
right and material thing and material things,

Unknown Speaker  20:07  
right. I think that's part of what you realize is like, oh, none of that. I mean, sure. It's great. And it's comfortable. And I like, you know, having a nice house and all that stuff. Even though currently, you know, I live in a studio apartment currently, I live in a bachelor because it's like, that's my little incubator. I had a house, but I sold it when I got a divorce. But, I mean, it's well decorated. I will say that. But, but I realizing like, that's not the stuff that's really going to enliven me. So, I kind of got lost there, but

Unknown Speaker  20:40  
no, it's okay. I mean, I feel like it just snuck up on me when I, midlife happened me, I remember my husband saying, you know, you're kind of going out. And he was very supportive, I'm very lucky to have a supportive husband, to say to me, you know, you're going out a little bit more, I noticed you're drinking a little more. I mean, I don't I don't drink to alcoholism or anything. I've been careful about it. But you know, I, and I'm having more social life, I just, I sort of went away from a social life, my whole 30s and 40s, were spent spending time with my husband and writing on my books on my career, and helping my sister raise her kids. So it's been almost 20 years doing that. And then it really what happened was the kids grew up and didn't need me anymore. And there was a divorce. So all this stuff happened. And I'm like, Well, wait a minute. Now I became a wandering Jew, like, I'm Jewish. Like, where do I go? What? And that activated something. And I didn't know it until I was in it was negative tools. It was hard. I was scared. I was my body changed in ways I didn't like, you know, you talk about those things?

Unknown Speaker  21:41  
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And though, because that's a big part of it is really grappling with those, those changes, and because those are sometimes what will sink us? And what will that'll become the narrative about that time in our life, or this time in our life, you know, that my body isn't the way that it is? Or people don't give me the attention that I used to get or whatever. And, you know, so, but I don't and I don't really know how to kind of, I'm wandering. I'm wanting something, but I don't know how to really get that. That need met. Yeah. So maybe when you were drinking or when you were out? Like, you know, maybe you were looking for tribe? Yeah, you didn't have before you had your husband, you had your family, but you want to try? Yes. And you know, when I good? Yeah, right. And before, you know, before I started building my master gate, mastering Game of Life program, I interviewed I surveyed a lot of gay men and about what they really what mattered to them in their lives. And almost invariably, almost all of them said it was either, you know, a romantic partner or tribe, they want love and belonging, as that's what they feel like has been missing. And partying or whatever, in their younger days, or even still isn't doing it. So it's like you were clearly searching to express some, some part of you that hadn't gotten expressed.

Unknown Speaker  23:06  
Yeah. And I mean, I started going to concerts I never went to before I was meeting people. And and, you know, I felt like an adolescent but I think that's kind of what's happening. It's it's a midlife adolescence. Would you agree with that?

Unknown Speaker  23:17  
I 100% Yeah. Because that's kind of the cool thing we grow up. And you know, that I mean, I don't know that midlife adolescence, eventually, you know, you'd want to come through that. I hope, but that growing up process actually includes sort of a reclaiming of a younger part of us. So, you know, I mean, there's a there you definitely have a young spirit about you, which you can see on Tick Tock and that comes through and even just talking to you, you know, so to me, the beauty of midlife is like integrating all that in a really beautiful synthesized way. So you can express consciously your younger self, your younger qualities and you're you're you know, really mature sophisticated, seasoned part you can also be in your your body as a you know, 50 something year old man and have that be really powerful and, like connect with your body and maybe a new way.

Unknown Speaker  24:15  
Yes, you have to. Yeah, I want to make sure we also talk about the steps to begin midlife mastery but I'm start creating a great life in the 40s and 50s. Did you already say them or do you want to say them now?

Unknown Speaker  24:26  
Well, no, and that's that's a part of the you know, those core tasks you know of before but really, you know, what the mastering game in life program you know, it's a it's an online course and a coaching journey. What that really is about is, you know, taking you through those tasks, but ultimately, for the purpose of tuning into that soul spark that you have into and really coming to clarity around what is it that I want to do in this time in my life If and what if I've been holding back from putting out into the world? Like, what part of me really needs to be expressed? And in what do I need to, to to make that happen? What support Do I need to make that happen? And who do I need to become? In order to make that happen?

Unknown Speaker  25:18  
I have a line that I use, you probably read it in my book with the small child, you once were look up to the adult you want to become

Unknown Speaker  25:26  
I, I will know, I always want to quote that. I've almost put that in my Instagram as one of my quotes. Because I love that so much. I love it too. And

Unknown Speaker  25:37  
you're doing it, I want to tell you how happy I am. And it makes me I almost want to maybe become a member of this group that you're doing. Because I think, honestly, there's nothing. And I'd like your work. I, you know, I've been introduced to you when you came to me and I was on your podcast and watching your social media, and you're so comfortable with yourself, and you just have such a good energy around you. And I just feel like the gay male community doesn't have a lot of that. And we're lucky to have somebody like you. And I mean, that from the bottom of my heart.

Unknown Speaker  26:05  
Thank you so much shows that really, really means a lot because I do see you as you know, you're someone I look up to, in a lot of ways, like as a gay man, but also as a as a business person. Hmm, thank you really like I, I haven't told you this, but I do track you as like, like my mentor. That's great. So thank you for being a model for me.

Unknown Speaker  26:28  
I'm so happy to do it. And you know, I know I do. I do love the business side. But it really is all secondary to how much I love the work. And I know that so trite and treat and cheesy people don't. But I do love everything I do. And the business part just comes you know, so hopefully it will for you.

Unknown Speaker  26:43  
Yeah, thank you. That's it seems to be working so far. So yes.

Unknown Speaker  26:46  
So just before we go, any last things you want to hear, we want that listeners to hear from you.

Unknown Speaker  26:53  
You know, just that middle, if you're at if you're a gay man or not at midlife. Just know that if you're struggling, if you're feeling disillusioned, if you're, you know, whatever it is you're struggling with, that that's a part of the process, that's that you are tuning into something and something is calling you, and something is wanting to come forward. And that you just may need some help, whether it's some community or working with a coach or whatever, to help you through that process, but you are on to something and to not ignore that. That's great. And how can people find you buck? They can go to my website, which is just buck Dodson calm, or you know, I'm always available on Instagram, Buck Dodson coaching, and also you can listen to my podcast, which is Gaiman's lifelab, which we cover all things, not just midlife.

Unknown Speaker  27:45  
That's great. Thank you. And I want to dedicate this whole podcast to Bob Bergeron. I hope I'm saying his name right. Bob Bergeron, who wrote that book that never got published the right side of 40 I just think you're the man who's going to take that to the to the well not to the next level. We never heard from him but to the to what the work you might have done. And I really appreciate that. And for those of you listening and enjoy my podcasts, you can always find me at Joe court COMM The name of the podcast is smart sex, smart love, and you can follow me on Twitter, tik tok, Instagram and Facebook. And you just go to Dr. Joe court. That's JOEKO Rt. Thanks for listening and I'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai