It remains taboo in the black community to seek mental health services. It feels unsafe, it is intimidating, and it is not the place to air your dirty laundry. These beliefs need to change, says Darcia Miller, a licensed master social worker with The Center for Relationship and Sexual Health in Royal Oak, Michigan. She knows they are true … not just by her work as a mental health therapist, but as an African American woman who was raised with these beliefs. And she also knows it is time to change these views. We are supposed to trust the mental health system because it helps people, it protects them and provides resources, but will it really be safe, will it really help African Americans?
Generation after generation, black families have taught their children to be fearful of the world; don’t draw attention to yourself and your family. They constantly live in a survival mode. Will their child return home safely? Will the police show up unexpectedly at their house? Black families believe the world is an unsafe place, and these beliefs continue one generation after another.
During a Smart Sex, Smart Love podcast, Darcia discusses why it is difficult for African Americans to seek mental health services and provides some advice on how to overcome these issues and seek help when you need it.
It remains taboo in the black community to seek mental health services. It feels unsafe, it is intimidating, and it is not the place to air your dirty laundry. These beliefs need to change, says Darcia Miller, a licensed master social worker with The Center for Relationship and Sexual Health in Royal Oak, Michigan. She knows they are true … not just by her work as a mental health therapist, but as an African American woman who was raised with these beliefs. And she also knows it is time to change these views. We are supposed to trust the mental health system because it helps people, it protects them and provides resources, but will it really be safe, will it really help African Americans?
Generation after generation, black families have taught their children to be fearful of the world; don’t draw attention to yourself and your family. They constantly live in a survival mode. Will their child return home safely? Will the police show up unexpectedly at their house? Black families believe the world is an unsafe place, and these beliefs continue one generation after another.
During a Smart Sex, Smart Love podcast, Darcia discusses why it is difficult for African Americans to seek mental health services and provides some advice on how to overcome these issues and seek help when you need it.
Unknown Speaker 0:05
Welcome to smart sex smart love. We're talking about sex goes beyond the taboos. And talking about love goes beyond the honeymoon. I'm Dr. Joe Cort. Thanks for tuning in.
Unknown Speaker 0:21
today's podcast is on stigma regarding mental health services among African Americans. My guest today is Darcy Miller, a licensed master social worker with the Center for relationship and sexual health in Royal Oak Michigan. There sia has dedicated the past 10 years of her career to helping individuals approach and navigate life in a healthier way. She utilizes a strength based perspective, mindfulness based approaches, and cognitive behavioral therapy. When working with couples, families and adolescence. She has helped many individuals and families heal, overcome life's challenges and achieve their personal goals. No one should have to go through difficult times alone she professes her areas of expertise include crisis conflict, stress management, anger management, substance abuse, impulse control, transition management and behavioral therapy. darcia also specializes in substance abuse issues, peer relationships, trauma, depression and mood disorders, grief and loss, codependency, self esteem and self value issues, as well as sexual abuse and sexual identity issues. She obtained her master's degree in social work from Wayne State University, and is certified in cognitive behavioral therapy. Welcome, Garcia.
Unknown Speaker 1:39
Welcome. Hi.
Unknown Speaker 1:41
How's it going?
Unknown Speaker 1:42
It is going good. How
Unknown Speaker 1:43
are you? Good at so glad to have you here. So and everybody full disclosure, their co works with us at the Center for relationship and sexual health. And we're so happy to have you join us there and on the podcast.
Unknown Speaker 1:55
Yes, I'm so happy to be here.
Unknown Speaker 1:57
Me too. Me too. And especially about this topic. It's so timely, obviously. And and I even hate saying it's timely, because it was time in the 60s when I was, you know, in my preteen pre, you know, teen years when all the stuff was civil riots were happening and civil arguments in favor of this. And it's it just boggles my mind that it's taking all this time for us to finally start to try to get it. Yes, yes,
Unknown Speaker 2:22
I agree. I agree.
Unknown Speaker 2:25
So let's talk about it. Um, you talk about this trust with the mental health system that a lot of people of color have. And you say that this is a concern for blacks and African Americans? Can you talk about that a little bit?
Unknown Speaker 2:38
Yes. So once again, I'm also speaking because I am a black woman of youth. So I'm speaking from experience and also like, just from what I know what I'm working with clients, um, you know, growing up black, it's very common in our households that what happens in this household stays in this household, you do not go and you don't, you know, tell our business to anyone. So, when you grow up thinking that, then it's like, okay, you have a nice like silent that of battles, or you may have disagreements with your family members, or your mom or things may have happened in the household, that are taboo or things and it's kind of swept under the rug, we do not discuss this. So you feel lost, and you feel like, Okay, well, one I've been taught not to share bit, share my business. So when I'm going to a mental health professional, I already have my guard up, because it's like, I can't tell you, you know, too much. Also, just from even working with clients, I have heard, like, people who have shared that things have happened in their home with their mental health professional, and then the next thing they know, CPS may be involved, or the police may be involved. So it's like, I'm coming to you just to like, have a safe place to talk and tell you what's going on. But then now, all these other people are involved. And yes, as a clinician, we do have an ethical responsibility to report but if it's something I'm gonna give you example of something that kind of just happened. A woman she left her belief, he was like 10 years old, like a 10 year old son and a younger child in a hotel room while she wants to work, and she was arrested at work, and her kids were taken away. And it wasn't that, you know, she left her kids at this hotel room because she went out to a party or things like that. She simply couldn't afford childcare. She didn't have the support system to help her and she like what do you do when you have to provide also so it's things like that that kind of happened, um, where you know, there isn't that trust because people do wonder. CPS is caught more often on you know, the the black community or being opposed. to other different races. So, you know, it's just developing that trust and support and knowing that it's a safe spot knowing that I can be honest without you, you know, basically calling the police on me or CPS, like, that's a huge thing that I have come in common people are afraid of CPS and the police.
Unknown Speaker 5:19
Right, because you get, you're reminding me of in 19 had to be at, I don't know, it was like 1984 ish. I was home for college from college. My, we had moved to Birmingham, Michigan, here in Detroit, which is primarily a white neighborhood. And we had come from Oak Park, Michigan, which was mixed. So um, I don't know why I'm telling you that. But that's the way we had my mother had a black female colleague come over to the house to visit us and we just moved in. And within minutes, the police came to our house. And a neighbor had called the police saying that this house that my we were living in was being robbed. And it was, it was so racist. I'll never forget it. And and my mother's friend laughed. She was very upset. And my mother was upset. It was just such a horrible, but it was racist. It wasn't about they didn't think we were being robbed. It was racism.
Unknown Speaker 6:13
Mm hmm.
Unknown Speaker 6:15
Yeah. So it's sort of like what you're saying is that it's it's the, you know, people call Protective Services call the police call whatever, because they're, it's about it's the hatred or racism, it's not about what's the threat, like, I'm
Unknown Speaker 6:27
not sure why people are threatened just by the color of your skin. Like, you know, that's a prime example. This was somebody that was visiting your mother, nobody even had a conversation with her, they just saw the color of her skin, right? made an assumption. And, you know, one thing I can say, especially with, you can change a lot of things about yourself, but like, I can't change the color of my skin, like I did, I can't like this is just who I am. And it is disheartening, when you do grow up at a place or in America, where your skin tone is a threat.
Unknown Speaker 7:02
Yeah. You know, can you go back to to being raised in a family of color? And how so they teach you to be cautious of the world, right? Because of the lack of fairness of these things happening? Is that what you were trying to say?
Unknown Speaker 7:18
Yes, yes, yes. Um, you know, it's all about growing up, like, I can just go back to master I, my mom was 18 when she had me. So she was a single mother. So you know, that's all that's another stress. But I was like, Okay, I just need you to do what I say don't add any extra attention to our household where, like, people are literally just in survival mode and just trying to survive. So, you know, some of the things that we have been taught, now, that times have changed, you know, I think black households are adjusting and just, you know, um, you know, kind of changing the standard, like, another thing is, like, I don't know if you ever heard the saying, like, spare, I think, how's it going? spare the rod? spoil the child? Yeah. So because people feel like, I need to be tough on you, in this in this household, because I have to prepare you for when you leave here in the world, I have to make sure that you make it back home. So yeah, I'm going to be 10 times harder on you. So when you do see a police officer, you know, you are going to know what to do because I need you home. So, you know, we it's just some things that are just from natural survivor survivor mode through generations and just pass down. But, you know, like I said, one of the biggest things is like, don't tell what goes on in this household, or also, a lot of our families are very, like I said, tough on us, because they're trying to prepare us. Or, you know, it goes back down for generations, where it's like, I have to decide I would rather discipline you than the police discipline you. Hmm,
Unknown Speaker 9:00
that makes so much sense. I don't think you and I were talking a little bit about this for before the podcast yesterday, and how I'm thinking to myself, I know other people would think I never was taught this. And I never had to think like this. And that comes from being in a privileged position, right?
Unknown Speaker 9:16
Mm hmm.
Unknown Speaker 9:18
I don't I the only time I ever had to think about anything, was my mother. And I have no idea why she had this in our basement. But she did. I was like 10 years old. And there was a button and it said Jewish power. And I didn't know what that meant. I just thought I'm Jewish. And I'm going to like express myself in school. So I put the button on it was a big button, got in the car, and she said, You can't wear that to school. And I said why not? I had no idea. And then she proceeded to express that there were people that were anti semitic. And, you know, so then she took it off and said, it's not safe. I wish I would have had at 10 years old the wherewithal to say, then why the fuck is this in our basement, you know, throw it out. But that was the only time I ever got an experience personally that the world might be unsafe.
Unknown Speaker 9:57
Yes, yes,
Unknown Speaker 9:59
but you're saying that It's pretty much common in families of color given the way the world is set up.
Unknown Speaker 10:04
Yeah, but we're born into it like so. And this is a question that I want to ask because I was exploring this with like my friends. Um, I've never had like any major interactions with the police officer Besides, you know, like a trap, like a speeding ticket or something like that. But naturally, when I see a police officers that my body has a reaction, it tenses up, I get scared, I get nervous. And they could just be the police just walking by me or just driving but I my body has a natural reaction of fear. So I want to ask, like, do you have that same reaction when you see a police officer?
Unknown Speaker 10:44
No, I don't not at all. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 10:47
And it was nothing I didn't have I have never had like, any one on one bad experience, but just see how it's just like, I felt like it's just your generational event. What you see a TV in the media. Yep.
Unknown Speaker 11:01
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 11:03
So yeah, so let's just like we don't, a lot of people even now I live in, um, and I'm just being part like, so when the situation happened over. Like, it's been like over a year now with Armand Arbor. He was working, you know, jogging outside. And, you know, he got killed and me, I am black. And I live in the area where it's predominantly white people. And it's been hard for me to like, when that happened, I was scared to exercise. I was scared to walk to going to run to walk my dog, because it's like, I don't know what if that happened to him? You know, it can happen to me.
Unknown Speaker 11:43
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 11:44
Right. So it's like, you have this fear and you're scared, and who wants to operate in a world like that?
Unknown Speaker 11:49
Right. And so bringing it back to the mental health field, it makes sense, then, if the world feels unsafe, the mental health field would feel unsafe to that. It's supposed to be safe and should be safe. But you still have your, your your fears. Yeah, yes.
Unknown Speaker 12:04
So it's, like a system and even with mental health, the system that has been put in place, you know, to help people or protect or, you know, provide resources hasn't always been favorable for us. So it's like, we have these things that's in place. We know that as mental health professionals, but it I don't know, if you're going to really help me like I've, you know, have you you haven't helped before, or I have heard stories of that people did go try to seek mental health services. And, you know, it wasn't what they expected, or they didn't click Well, with the therapist. It's just many different, or the barriers even accessing service
Unknown Speaker 12:48
that you had that yes, that's that's another thing. Right? So he having insurance and the financial expense of having going through mental health can be a barrier to is that what you're saying?
Unknown Speaker 12:58
Yes, yes.
Unknown Speaker 13:00
You had said that some for some black and African American Americans, they perceive seeking mental health services as a sign of weakness. Can you talk about that?
Unknown Speaker 13:09
Yes. So that's another thing that kind of goes back to how so like, we've been taught the world is tough things happen. You cry you some people may not even cry, or you don't let people see you cry. You do what you got to do. You put your big girl pants on and you go out here like you don't have time to, you know, be sad or, or do things when you have to survive or you have these kids depending on you are you have your family depending on you, I can't afford a mental breakdown. I can't go to a psychiatric hospital if I'm having suicidal thoughts, because who's gonna take care of my family? If I'm gone? So it's like, I don't have time to deal with this. And people are literally just in survival mode. And working to leave their mental health day, it should be something that's in the forefront, but it's kind of like, okay, it has to go back. I can't deal with this right now.
Unknown Speaker 14:07
Would you say that people feel safer in their churches, around their religious beliefs and teachings?
Unknown Speaker 14:13
So, um, for me, I grew up Baptist. Um, and I can tell you now I've, it's, I've heard in sermons that you don't need to go get on a psychiatric medication or seek mental health service, you just need to pray, pray to God, and pray to Jesus, and that's who's going to give you your strength. And that's just what we do. And yes, those things are good. Yes, I do believe in prayer and all of those things, but sometimes it's okay to take if you need an anxiety medication, or you need to pressure medication or if you're hearing voices, some stuff just can't be prayed away. Hmm. And that's just my personal opinion. I'll know people may not agree with it, but just and I don't know is giving is a disservice to people because you can do both both can exist, you can still pray and see a therapist. And if I want to take a psychiatric medication to help me just get through, I can do that too. All things can all three can coexist together,
Unknown Speaker 15:15
do you think those teachings came from the distrust of what somebody might go through in the mental health system, the racism?
Unknown Speaker 15:23
Um, I will say, I'm gonna say probably like no on that part, when it comes to like, you know, praying things away, I just think that it goes back to like, you have to be strong. trouser issues are going to come but you know, you personally know your faith in God to like, get you through it. Or you know, or sometimes we hear, even in people don't even talk about this, let's talk about this. The severe mental illness diagnosis such as you know, schizophrenia, bipolar, like, you can go into a black neighborhood, and you can see somebody walking up and down the street talking to themselves. And people just say, Oh, that's who so and so like, we just, you know, he's just a neighborhood homeless person that walks up and down the street to talk to himself, when really he's hearing voices. And probably he's mental. Right? But normal, like, it's just really just normalized. I thought that's just who they are.
Unknown Speaker 16:24
No, that makes sense. You know, I've noticed that the center, when we requested our hiring therapist, and I hired an African American woman, Rita, and she, most of the clients I'd see in the waiting room that would come to her were African American. And it reminded me of thinking to myself as a gay therapist, most of my clients in the 90s when I first started, or gay guys, you know, are LGBT? And so do you think that it's the same idea that they feel safer with somebody of color?
Unknown Speaker 16:52
For sure? Yes, yes. Yes, yes. Especially when you start, you know, talking about like, the LGBT, man, just different things like that. Definitely. Because that's also that's something that's very taboo. And I think as the generation and things are changing, um, you know, people are being more comfortable with, like, coming out or talking to people, but that's really taboo in the black community about, you know, with that population, they do, I will say, you know, just from experience, it is, it's hard for them, because, yeah, they don't have the family support. Um, that's not something that is welcomed a lot. I'm hoping that as time you know, comes that things change. And I do see some change, but it's slow. It's a slow process.
Unknown Speaker 17:45
It's very slow. I do know that in the sexology field forever, it was pre eminently white. And till the last five years, I'd say African American and pm therapists of color said, this is not okay. You know, you're not wanting to be included. There are obviously Everyone needs help around sex therapy. And we want we started challenging the system and think, thankfully, because I don't even think again, because it was such a privileged place. I don't think anybody thought about it. But they're thinking about it now and they're much more visible. And it's it's changing a lot. Yes, yes. Yes.
Unknown Speaker 18:20
And that's good. And I think that unfortunately, you know, it took all of these years but I will say I do see you know, some changes and things and you do see like you said like more people of color or different from different backgrounds having a seat at the table now or just being apart. So I think if we continue to do this, we will see change for with everyone.
Unknown Speaker 18:48
What do you think somebody is so let's say a black person of color black person, brown person goes to a therapist who is white? What should the white therapist be saying or thinking about to make it more comfortable for them? You know, because I think about for LGBT I would always tell therapists you should have you know, like a newspaper in your waiting room that's for LGBT is showing them they're welcome. Have a book on your bookshelf have something that that shows Hey, this is a friendly place. is the same true for a white therapist with black clients? Oh,
Unknown Speaker 19:21
yes, that's Yes, you can have those things but I also think it's you know, we don't want to feel like you're just like doing it just to you know, do it or make us feel comfortable I just think honestly in your actions and just how you speak and like I had a conversation with you know, with you about it, just educating yourself on the the race that you're seeing that goes for a black or Asian or the LGBTQ like any person that you're seeing you seeing you should educate yourself before that person comes. Just so you have the knowledge and in it Things do come up and you, you have a question or you want to better understand it, then you know, x.
Unknown Speaker 20:08
I'm glad you brought this up because right, we talked about how and I have been told and heard black people saying they don't want to educate you, like people will say, well educate me. I actually had a client who went on vacation, he has a white partners, and most of their friends were white, and they were in a sunny place drifting in on a raft. And one guy drifted toward him and said, so So tell me, what do I need to know? So I'm not racist toward other black people. And he said, Dude, I'm on freakin vacation here. You know, I don't want to educate you. So in a lot of people feel that way. So can you talk about that?
Unknown Speaker 20:41
Yes. So you know, and I agree, like, this has been this has been going on for hundreds of years. Like, like I said, we're born into this race or racism, like I remember having conversations with my grandparents, and they're telling me how they grew up in Mississippi and how they ended up here up north. So we hear the stories, and it's just like, and we live in, we live in every day. So it's just like, it's not my responsibility to like, educate you on something, especially now where there's Google, there's books. Yes, there's so many other things that you can educate yourself on before you, you know, go to a black person or African American or someone of color and say, Hey, can you educate me on this kinds of comes off, like, insensitive? Yeah, it's like, it's not my responsibility. And I know for me, we all had history class, I know, only one month out of the year, they do discuss black history. So it's like, some of you have been educated to a certain extent. But just like with anything else, pick up a book, or Google Now if you have a question, if you say, Hey, I was reading this, or I came across this and I, and I wanted to just get clarity, then that's different. Because it's
Unknown Speaker 22:02
good point. Thank you. Good. That's a really good point. say more about that.
Unknown Speaker 22:06
Yeah, I'm just like, so at least like you try. So at least you're not coming like empty handed is, I'm more willing to have a conversation with you if you done your part and done your research. And then we can talk about it. But I'm not going to give you a history lesson. Here like no, I don't mean to laugh, but
Unknown Speaker 22:27
it is silly. When you say it. I mean, it's so because I know a lot of white people say well, you missed an opportunity, you know, that person asked you, but whose opportunity? Is it really like why you're right. Like, why should you start with a black history? One on one for this person?
Unknown Speaker 22:41
Yes. And I have a question to you. And I hope this doesn't come off, like insensitive to you. So I know. You say like, you're Jewish? How? Like, how would you feel if somebody came up and say, can you educate me on the Holocaust? Like, you will be like, um, I personally would like its research and like that, but
Unknown Speaker 23:02
I know, it's a great question. Don't Don't worry about being too personal. I don't know. Well, I feel like I don't even know a lot about the Holocaust. And I should know more. But, but you're right, I guess. I don't know even about LGBT when someone comes. I've had many, many, many straight people. I'm out at parties and stuff and say, you know, so. I don't know that I ever felt a put out or offended when someone would ask, I totally get why you would? Um, I don't know. I don't know why I never did, maybe because I, I would be out in places where people would know I'm a therapist. So I have my therapist hat maybe if I didn't have that, but I have to be honest, as I've gotten older, and I'm at parties, I don't want people to look at me as a therapist, I want to I want to relax and not be working at this party. So it's a good question. But you're right, you shouldn't have to do that. And people don't they don't understand and I don't I don't think people appreciate how exhausting it is for you to have to walk around and think about your race all the time. I don't think about my race all the time. I really don't Oh, wow. Wow.
Unknown Speaker 24:04
I didn't even because for me like once again, in my mind that's always at the top of my list is I'm back like I think about every day so wow that to hear from a different perspective.
Unknown Speaker 24:17
Yeah, I let the only time I've thought about my race and much more now since it's in the news. I just think to how is it because you're much younger than me and I mean, I'm 58 years old in school and college and all my degrees the part about minorities which we don't even say minorities anymore, right for black people. You know that
Unknown Speaker 24:36
you they still said Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 24:38
Oh cuz I've been called out about it that it's not there's a different way to say it. That that it's um, stigmatizing to say the word minority. You haven't heard that.
Unknown Speaker 24:47
I've not heard that. This is my first time being educated on that.
Unknown Speaker 24:49
Yeah. I don't really know what else to say underprivileged population. Somebody told me to say once so, but it was always this the last section of a book It wasn't like a chapter. It wasn't even a book. It was always always in the back of everything. And it's just, it's crazy to think it was ever like that.
Unknown Speaker 25:09
Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 25:10
yeah, it's, it's crazy. And it's even more crazier now in 2020, where we still see the same things happening.
Unknown Speaker 25:18
The one time, the times I have thought about my race. And again, this is because I'm in a privileged position as a white person, so I never had to think about it. But now I forced myself to think about it because I want to be on top of this and inclusive was, um, I went to Well, it was black sexology, program started, and classes started, and I went to them. And all most of their slides, if not all of them had black people, black images. And I remember thinking, Oh, my gosh, all of mine have white images. I never thought about what it must be like for somebody black to be in my audience, seeing a bunch of white images. It didn't even cross my mind. Until I saw, I felt what it was like for me to watch a PowerPoint imagery with nobody that looks like me. And I changed my slides after that. So you know, it's just being having those kind of awarenesses is, is helpful. And see, that goes back to like, you educated yourself on something like you took like, as just even as a human, like, you saw how you felt? Yes, put yourself in someone else's shoes, and you did something to correct it.
Unknown Speaker 26:19
It's something it's something as simple as that. Like, we're not asking for you know, a lot we just make the tweaks and the changes where you can just so you, you know, we'll just be more sensitive to other people.
Unknown Speaker 26:33
I love it. I agree with you so much. I appreciate it. Anything last you want to say but we're gonna come to an end in a minute that we didn't say you want listeners to hear?
Unknown Speaker 26:41
I think we're pretty I enjoyed our conversation that we had we talked about a lot. So no.
Unknown Speaker 26:49
Okay, I like how organic it was that we and I like that you ask me questions. I've never had somebody do that. I love it. I want it to be more, you know, unplugged here and not, you know, scripted.
Unknown Speaker 26:59
Yes, yes, yes. But I always enjoy talking to you. I feel like we can talk. We always have like, five minute conversations that go longer. So I always enjoy it.
Unknown Speaker 27:08
I appreciate it, too. And I appreciate that we can talk without defensiveness. Not that there's anything wrong if you do get defensive every once in a while. But, you know, there's so much defensiveness out there that it's it blocks people from having these conversations, we have to be aware of them.
Unknown Speaker 27:22
Yes, yes. And I will say this about you know, you, Joe, and you are very open minded. And you're you're willing to sit down and have the conversation you take you make it you know, easier because you're like, How can I be better? What can I do? Or you already come to the table with some education analogy you want to improve so it makes the conversation easier to have.
Unknown Speaker 27:45
Thank you so much. And I really am open. It's not an act. I've always been open. I just don't know how to get to know what I need to be open about. But now I do with people of color. Yes, um, where can people find you?
Unknown Speaker 27:59
So I am on Psychology Today right now. And then Soon I'll be on therapy for black girls. And then also you can see me at the Center for relationship and sexual health. I am taking appointments, so our clients, so I'm super excited to see people. So yeah, check me out, please. Yes, definitely. Thank
Unknown Speaker 28:23
you. dosia. Thank you so much for coming on my show. And for being with us. And yes, that's at the Center for relationship and sexual health is www.csh.com and you'll find her profile there and this podcast will be living there too. And you can hear more of my podcasts at smart sex smart love.com and you can follow me on Twitter, tik tok, Instagram and Facebook. Just go to at Dr. Joe court. That's jL e k o r t. Thank you for listening, and I'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to this episode of smart sex smart love. I'm Dr. Joe Cort. You can find me on Joe court. com. That's jekrt.com See you next time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai