John Ball and Lisa Goyette on how businesses can create a more authentic and empathetic workplace

Let’s take a moment to relive those days as children on the playground. Were you bullied, teased, or ridiculed? You probably remember some of those experiences like they happened yesterday. Years ago, you built walls of protection and silos of safety to make sure no one could hurt you.

 It’s time to tear down those walls and silos and take the risk of going back to the playground again, say John Ball and Lisa Goyette. During a Smart Sex, Smart Love podcast. John and Lisa, founders of CH Training & Coaching, talk with Dr. Joe Kort about how businesses can create a more authentic and empathetic workplace “playground” by increasing relational intimacy through social and emotional intelligence.

Social and emotional intelligence is the science of managing yourself and connecting with others. To do this, John and Lisa recommend using a new “life lens,” as they call it, to improve relational intimacy and healthy communication. Vulnerability, authenticity, resilience and adaptability are just a few of the tools needed to learn how to adapt your behavior based on an awareness of your emotions and the emotions of others. Even in the midst of our differences, we still can find a way to work together effectively, increase productivity in the workplace and develop a satisfying work life. We can do it in our personal life; we should be able to do the same in our work life.

Step back and take a real look at who we are, John and Lisa advise. Look at our behaviors, our family, our “playground” experiences, and our relationships. Understand who we are as an individual, and how we judge ourselves and others. Preconceptions of people are made in the first 10 to 15 seconds.

In the workplace, employees need to feel safe expressing their feelings; they want to be heard and they want to validated, not judged. It can be scary to tear down the walls and silos. You don’t want to relive those playground days.

Transcript

Unknown Speaker  0:05  
Welcome to smart sex smart love. We're talking about sex goes beyond the taboos. And talking about love goes beyond the honeymoon. I'm Dr. Joe Cort. Thanks for tuning in.

Unknown Speaker  0:21  
today's podcast is increasing intimacy through social and emotional intelligence. My guests today are john ball and Lisa goyette. co founders and co owners of ch training and coaching, an organization that specializes in working with businesses to help create healthy, productive and engaging work environments through a customized approach that is unique to the culture of each client. All of their work utilizes social and emotional intelligence as the foundation for which relationships must be built and maintained. Lisa is a certified social and emotional intelligence coach, and works to help people reach their highest potential, professionally and personally. JOHN has spent the majority of his career empowering people to move beyond the status quo, breaking barriers that hold them back while tapping into their full potential. He is also a certified social and emotional intelligence coach. Welcome Lisa and john.

Unknown Speaker  1:20  
Thanks for having us, Joe. You know, john, and I are presidents of your fan club. Thank you and saying back to you. We've been trying for a while now ever since I came? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  1:34  
we do. And, and as you know, and we say it frequently, both in person as well as in the virtual space, Joe, we just are so so appreciative of the work that you and your colleagues are doing to just make a positive difference, and helping our culture to shift in such a meaningful way. So thanks for having us. Yes, so, so glad to have you here, I want to get the word out about what you do. So tell our listeners, what is the work that you do?

Unknown Speaker  2:03  
Well, in a nutshell, if you think about what we are taught as kids growing up moving through the school system, it's that our grades are what matter the most. And it's you know, what your GPA is where you rank in your school based upon your other peers. But what we know is that that is part of the equation. But the bigger part of the equation is how we move through life, as socially and emotionally intelligent men and women. And what that really means is, do we have the ability to communicate our needs to be self aware of our feelings, to be other aware of those that we move through life with and what they're feeling and experiencing, and how we kind of wrap all of that together in a package, and bring about health in the relationship. So that even when we have differences, that we can find ways to work through those differences, to create an outcome that is positive that works for everyone. And in relationship to that, Joe. So the work that we do is then taking that entire perspective, and bringing that into organizations, because what we believe that as much as the work that you and your colleagues are doing to really impact the front on human sexuality, it's important to be able to get the stakeholders who are in our culture on board as well. And so we find ourselves oftentimes in the educational environment, as well as in for profit corporations, to really create healthy, engaged and productive work environments where, as Lisa said, people are aware of themselves, they're managing their behaviors, they're aware of what's happening around them, and they're managing their relationships effectively.

Unknown Speaker  4:07  
That makes so much sense. You know, we, as a therapist, I was talking about people having an IQ, they're about their intelligence, but then an EQ, emotional intelligence. Can you speak to that? Absolutely. And so on the EQ part of that goes back to and I think there's a lot of

Unknown Speaker  4:27  
parallel work that both you do in the therapeutic sense, but in our world, the EQ is our ability to understand who we are as individuals.

Unknown Speaker  4:43  
how we perceive the world. And so really, what it comes down to is four different quadrants in terms of emotional intelligence. It's it's the awareness of self, our behaviors, our history, our family of origin.

Unknown Speaker  5:00  
are the things that motivate us and drive us, and then managing those things effectively. And as we said before, the second part of that is the other awareness in terms of that EQ, of being really conscious of, as we put it, a person that is, is curious. The second part of this is the other awareness where we become people who are curious and wanting to learn more about other people. So oftentimes, what we find in the work that we do is that we move into this place of judgment within the first 10 or 15 seconds, that we build relationships, and our preconceptions of who people are really drives that relationships. And so it requires us to take a few steps back and start asking the question of who really is this person? And what is their story in their experience that really makes them who they are? I imagine all this leads to like discussion around vulnerability and authenticity. How does this tie into the social and emotional intelligence. So as part of social emotional intelligence, as john was explaining those four quadrants, and then with in each of those quadrants, their skill sets that to be emotionally intelligent to be socially intelligent. We're hoping that people can learn those skill sets and master those. And being able to be vulnerable and to to be authentic requires that we understand first and foremost, why I'm feeling and what are my triggers for those feelings. And in order for me to be able to express those feelings, I have to be able to feel safe in a relationship, I have to, to know that if I express my feelings, that I am not going to be judged, and there's going to be a level of empathy that is going to be extended my way across the table.

Unknown Speaker  7:08  
So when we talk about creating vulnerability and deep vulnerability, it really comes down to safety people need to be to feel safe, they need to feel that they're not going to be judged. And they really need to feel the gift of empathy, and a very strong and convincing and sincere way.

Unknown Speaker  7:30  
What have been some of the biggest blockers that you've seen in people that they want to do this? They understand what you're saying, but what are things that have gotten in their way? Well, and I think it goes back to the question that is worth asking is what is relational intimacy. And so for the longest time, and we've had these conversations with you, Joe, on many different occasions, is culturally, we have entered into a place of transactional relationships. That's driven by a number of different factors. But what what really prohibits us from developing true relational intimacy is our family of origin, our history, our experience, that we've had with with other people in our lives, and we've developed a mentality around what relationships really are. And so as we look at developing relationships that are truly intimate, it comes down to three particular things that is common in all of us as human beings, we all have the innate desire to be seen,

Unknown Speaker  8:38  
for who we really are, to be heard for what our hearts are saying, as a part of the makeup and the DNA of who we are as human beings. And then we also have the desire to be to be loved. And we put it like this in a lot of our training and our coaching is that we learn very early on as children on the playground, that there's a price that's paid, when we venture out and truly become vulnerable and authentic. We get bullied, we get harassed, we get demeaned. We get teased. And so over the course of time, what we learn is is that vulnerability and authenticity is actually

Unknown Speaker  9:24  
something that's not worth investing in relationships, but rather we build walls. And we create silos for ourselves to protect ourselves from from being hurt as individuals.

Unknown Speaker  9:39  
Yeah, and in psychotherapy, we call it complex trauma. We're over time, the bullying, the negative messaging, all of that accumulates and it's the cube, the accumulation of it all that sets up the lack of vulnerability, which is then your work is about undoing for them. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It is and it's in it's helping them to see because

Unknown Speaker  10:00  
As there always has to be a sense of payout and value in what we're able to discover in terms of taking that risk again, to go to that playground, and and to develop new relationships and enter into that place of vulnerability. And it saddens us jealousy. So often, when we're doing the work that we're doing in the corporate environment, that we've created environments where it's not acceptable to be truly authentic. And so we live, false misleading.

Unknown Speaker  10:31  
We live lives that are truly a lie that aren't authentic, because we've learned over the course of time that that it's not worth taking that risk. So it's helping our clients, the people that we're coaching and in the training environment that we're working in, to be able to see that there's inherent value in the rich, and baps of the relationships that are able to be formed there in how, how receptive are the businesses, and the people in the businesses? Like, do people like kind of rejected? Or they? Do they find it like, how is this going to work? Because it works, you got to be sort of guarded, right? And now, but you're coming in saying, No, we want you to put your guard down? How do they reconcile the two.

Unknown Speaker  11:14  
So when we move into the business world, there's definitely a level of, I guess, caution that we have to be really conscious of. Because if we come in, like we normally want to talk like we can with you, and start using words, like, you know, tell us about, um, you know, how you feel in a meeting of someone ticks you off? What does it really feel like, they are going to look at us, like, you know, Oh, my gosh, there's no way I'm going to divulge that. So we have to kind of really be mindful of understanding that it is scary for people in the business world to let their guard down. So we have to

Unknown Speaker  11:59  
kind of do it in a way that first and foremost, we have to build the trust between us and our

Unknown Speaker  12:09  
partners, if you will, and teach them the benefits that come out of having relationships, where vulnerability can really be obtained. And, you know, what we know is that none of us are going to get our needs met. If we go through life, and we talk about superficial things, right? Oh, my gosh, I can't believe here. It's April, what's today that might be

Unknown Speaker  12:36  
21st, to April 21, and we had snow flurries.

Unknown Speaker  12:41  
It's cold out, I can't believe that we're never going to to, you know, reach a level of, of intimacy if we move through life having those kinds of conversations. And we always say, why can't our work world and the relationship that we have, with our work partners, be justice fulfilling, and just as rich and just as intimate as we have in our personal lives. But a lot of people are really afraid to cross that that you know, invisible line. So we teach them the benefits that come out of creating rape, relational intimacy, in our places of employment, and the gifts that come out of it. So it takes time, there's no doubt about that gel. But I think over time,

Unknown Speaker  13:34  
the businesses that we have done work with really start seeing the value that comes out of

Unknown Speaker  13:41  
exploring that and creating those environments where you start having people that become more loyal, you start seeing things like productivity starts increasing, because you feel like, wow, they really care about me here, they see me more as the title that they've hired me,

Unknown Speaker  14:02  
you know, to work for this company. And we start seeing that the the gifts that come out of creating this vulnerability, it starts benefiting everyone. I like this, it goes back to my Mongo training, where really the thing about it is in couples therapy, and just in relationship, people want to be seen, people want to be heard. People want to be valued, and people want to be validated. And I have to do it in my own group practice, right? I can just have the therapists work for me and see clients and make me money. And it just comes along. And I don't really have to interact with them that much. But I want to, I want to for many reasons, but I want them to know that I value each and every one of them in different ways. And I want them to feel good about the work they're doing and that they're being seen in a positive way. And that's what you're looking about. Yes. Let me add to this to Joe and on a cultural level. There is no c

Unknown Speaker  15:00  
Already shouldn't be a secret by the fact that we're making a huge, huge shift even prior to COVID. As we talked about, there's a tsunami, a tsunami that's actually happening right now in our country, in terms of this cultural shift that's being driven by generation of diversity, ethnic and racial diversity. It's being driven by political divides, as well as so many other social constructs. And so this has become the perfect storm in so many regards. That's really creating a huge cultural shift, where we're having to find ourselves realigning to the new norms. And when you ask the question, are corporations and organizations receptive to this, our response is, if they're not, they need to be because what's driving the conversation now is a generational mentality and ideologies around a desire for authenticity,

Unknown Speaker  16:05  
rich and meaningful relationships in the workplace. It's not being driven by by monetary

Unknown Speaker  16:14  
achievement, or title, necessarily, but we have a generation millennials and Z's, that are driving this conversation around the expectation that I'm going to be in, I'm going to be working for

Unknown Speaker  16:29  
a business that is healthy and productive and engaging and as meaningful where I can have rich and productive relationships. And so we say, if businesses aren't willing to have this conversation, it's definitely not only a travesty, but it will also become the potential possibility for their downfall.

Unknown Speaker  16:51  
I couldn't agree more. And it's probably hard for you to convince them but just knowing your work and listening to you in the podcast today, I imagine that they're able, because you have a business sense, both of you, and you have a psychological sense, and a social sense. Yeah. And, you know, I can't give you an example of just a real simple way that this works. And it was something that happened to me personally, I did come out of the business world, and my husband and I had adopted a baby from China. So I was a new mom. And I had taken the family leave, and then I was going back to work. And I worked in a predominantly,

Unknown Speaker  17:29  
you know, male environment, and a very fast paced environment. And I remember being back at work for probably about two weeks, and I was just, I was overwhelmed. And I hold these emotions, you know, there was a level of guilt that I was, you know, back at work, and I'm thinking, Oh, my gosh, you know, I've got this baby at home, you know, am I doing the right thing by going back up work, but yet, I still have that desire of wanting to be a part of the business world. Anyway,

Unknown Speaker  17:58  
after about two weeks, one of the senior VPS of my company pulled me into his office, and he said, hey, at least you got a minute, I want to talk to you. And, and he started asking me, you know, I just want to find out how it feels for you to be back at work. What is it like for you as a new mom? You know, what kind of feelings are you experiencing? As you're trying to manage both work and juggling the responsibilities of motherhood? And I remember, he was the only person that asked me that question. Everyone else from the day that I returned to work, it was just like, I have left it was like, hey, Lisa, you know, this needs to be done by this time. And, you know, I need to have this presentation ready. But this individual was able to see me for more than just the program manager, he saw me as, as a mother, who was struggling with wearing multiple hats. And I remember feeling this closeness to him this relational intimacy, I walked out of his office and feeling a loyalty to him that I just thought, gosh, you know, this is someone that really cares about me, and sees me more than the title of the position that he hired me for. That's wonderful. That's a great story. And people need to be able to hear that so that they know it can be possible in their their places of work. I guess the last thing I'd like to ask you before we end is, you know, the pandemic has said obviously, and how has that impacted and what's your perspective on this and what what advice can you provide for this? Yeah, so, um, what what, what we have seen is that, in terms of the earlier part of this conversation, Joe that we had in terms of the cultural shift, as much as that has moved at such a rapid pace, the pandemic has he

Unknown Speaker  20:00  
even further exasperated that, and in many ways, what we have seen, and we've been saying this from the very getgo of the pandemic, within two or three weeks after we entered into lockdown, and were quarantined is we were concerned by the emotional, psychological and social impact. We're calling this the second pandemic. Still to this to this day, and it causes a great level of frustration on our part is that, rightfully so we need to keep people physically safe. But the second pandemic is around the social psychological and emotional impact that this has had upon the human race. And we're concerned about the emotional well being of the workforce. And so what we're saying, much like businesses and and individuals should be putting together safe practices in terms of keeping themselves physically safe from the virus, there should also be practices and initiatives put into place to help mitigate the psychological, emotional and social impact that this has had upon their workforce, and upon them as individuals. And so being clear about what we're feeling and what we're experiencing, and how we respond to that in effective ways, what are the ways that we provide self care to make sure that we're doing well, emotionally and psychologically, and so we've been doing a fair amount of work in terms of not only coaching, as well as helping businesses to create initiatives so that they're able to care for their workforce, and in that particular fashion.

Unknown Speaker  21:45  
That makes so much sense. Is there anything else you want to say before we end the message that you that we didn't get to, but want to make sure that people hear about you? Yeah, you know, the one thing that we've been telling businesses that they really have to be mindful of is, there's, there's all of this stuff that has been circling around us. So we acknowledge that the pandemic has been going on. But there's also the fact that there's the social unrest that is happening in our country, there's political division, to the likes that we've never seen before. And all of that stuff is coming into our places of employment, because every single one of us has an opinion about all of this stuff. And what we're seeing is that most of us have a pretty strong opinion, one way or another. So the lens that john and i look through life is, is that our responsibility as mature socially and emotionally intelligent men and women, is that we don't judge what those opinions are, but we teach employers, how to meet their employees, where they're at, with what they're feeling and what they're experiencing. And that's how you create health. Because by putting their heads in the sand and pretending like, well, if it's not being discussed, we're not, you know, we're not experiencing it here is the furthest thing from the truth. So we promote finding ways to teach people how to discuss the elephant in the room, how to handle conflict management in a way that builds bonds, rather than tears us apart. Don't you know, as I as I think about as we close together, you know, I, we appreciate you venturing outside of your normal conversations with smart sex, smart love, and this podcast, were, we would probably have things to add around. The new conversation around fandom, which we just learned was a term from you.

Unknown Speaker  23:49  
We're not talking about your anus doesn't have a sexual orientation, or

Unknown Speaker  23:54  
awakening or cuck holding, or BDSM. This is getting interesting at the end.

Unknown Speaker  24:01  
We got another half hour job,

Unknown Speaker  24:04  
thing that we strongly believe and we're not uncomfortable in having any of those conversations on human sexuality, as you know, around some of our dinner conversations that we've had. But really, if we're wanting to have meaningful and and, and meaningful relationships that are alive and fulfilling. These are the conversations that contribute to the fulfillment of the sexual part that oftentimes you bring to this podcast. And so we see ourselves as

Unknown Speaker  24:42  
partners, with you and so many because it takes all of us together to continue to have this conversation as we see our culture and our relationships evolve. Thank you. I agree. That's why I wanted you on here. How can people find you on the internet so we

Unknown Speaker  25:00  
They can quite easily just find us at WWE dot c. h training and coaching comm ch training and coaching calm. And we would love to have a conversation with individuals, as well as business leaders and organizations. And again, thank you so much, Joe, for having us on in this conversation and let's keep doing the good work that we all do together. Absolutely. JOHN, Lisa and john, I'm so glad you came on. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you for joining me today. And for those of you might you that are my listeners, I hope you've been enjoying smart sex smart love and that you'll continue listening in. You can also follow me on Twitter, on tik tok, Instagram and Facebook. You just go to at Dr. Joe port. That's JOEK Rt. Thanks for listening. And I'll see you next time.

Unknown Speaker  25:57  
Thanks for listening to this episode of smart sex smart love. I'm Dr. Joe Cort. You can find me on Joe court. com. That's jekrt.com See you next time.

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