Zachary Zane: Bisexuals have it easy ….?????

In my first Smart Sex, Smart Love podcast for Season 4, I opened it quite explosively with featured guest, Boyslut Zachary Zane, as he likes to be called.

At the young age of 32, Zachary is quite accomplished. He is a Brooklyn-based columnist, sex expert, author and activist whose work focuses on sexuality, culture and the LGBTQIA community. Recently, he wrote a book, Boyslut: A Memoir and Manifesto, and we talked about it – very openly, candidly and explicitly.

Bisexuality has had very little visibility over the years, Zachary notes. “I felt so alone and so isolated; I didn’t think bisexuality was real.”

When Zachary started learning he was not alone and there was a huge, unnoticed community of bisexuals, “it was a voice not represented, and that is why I wrote the book, Boyslut: A Memoir and Manifesto,” which describes his journey and how he was able to overcome his sexual shame.

“If talking about sex is uncomfortable, good! It’s time to start unpacking these feelings and talk about the subject … graphically and explicitly,” he announces.

“Get loud and obnoxious about your bisexuality! We are real, we exist, and we are not alone! Shout it out! Sex can be so much more fun if we can reduce sexual shame!”

To learn more about Zachary Zane and his bisexual journey, listen to this Smart Sex, Smart Love podcast, hosted by Dr. Joe Kort.

Transcript

Welcome to Smart sex smart love. We're talking about sex goes beyond the taboo and talking about love goes beyond the honeymoon. My guest today is Zachary Zane, a Brooklyn based columnist, sex experts and activist whose work focuses on sexuality, culture and the LGBTQ community. He's the author of boy slot, a memoir and manifesto and co author of Men's Health best sex ever. He writes to explain it the sex and relationship advice column at men's health and navigating non monogamy the polyamorous relationship calm in cosmopolitan. He is editor in chief of voiceless zine, which publishes nonfiction erotica from King stirs across the globe. Zachary's work has been featured in New York Times, Rollingstone, Washington Post, Playboy, and more. Today we're going to talk with voiceless Zachary Vane, as he calls himself.

Bisexuality, open relationships, gay hookup apps, and of course, his book voiceless a memoir and manifesto. Welcome, Zachary. Thank you so much for having me on. Joe. I'm excited to delve into it here. Yeah, me too, really. And I've been watching, you're watching other stuff on Instagram and everything. And I have to say, I love your work. And I still love your work. But even though I've been so open, and so my own kink in my own stuff, I watch you and sometimes I'm like, I'm like, cringy. I'm like, why am I cringing? Like, this is like, you go to places I'm like, Oh, my God. I don't know, I never thought I don't know what it is. I mean, I write very explicitly, I write very graphically. And, and I think that's on purpose to you. You know, it's not just for shock value, I think it's important to be able to talk about sex and to have like candid and explicit conversations about it. And I've noticed specifically often like with bisexual activism, we kind of purposely, like leave out the sex aspect of it, because we want to make ourselves like more palatable to gay and straight audiences. The same way older generations of gays did that to where like, they there was like a movement to kind of remove sex from it. And like, no, sex and raunchy sex is a large part of my sexuality. So it's important that when discussing bisexuality, to be graphic to be explicit, and if that makes some people uncomfortable, good, you should be unpacking that. Why does my sex life make you feel uncomfortable? Yeah, no, I love it. And you just explained because I'm of that generation, that we're trying to take sex out of it. So we could be more accepted. But yeah, that's the case anymore. And you're not doing that. That makes sense. To me. That's probably that's why I ever cringe response because it goes against what I was doing before. Yeah, yep. Absolutely. All right. Well, let's just get right started into why you decided to write your book voiceless, a memoir and manifesto. Sure. I mean, there are a few reasons why here, but I think the first one is, I just really hadn't seen like a memoir written by bisexual man about how to overcome sexual shame. And, you know, there are a lot of gay memoirs, and I just haven't seen my story and experience really represented, you know, there was very, very little bisexual visibility, up until more recently, and now we're starting to see it everywhere. And I'm a part of that, and I love it. I live for it. But one thing I realized when I started, you know, writing about sex and relationships almost a decade ago,

was that my experience as a bisexual man was actually not unique. But I felt so alone, so isolated, I didn't think bisexuality was real, because every bi guy I knew in college came out as gay shortly after. So while I am egocentric, I'm not delusional as like, I can't be the only bi guy in the world here.

But of course, they're bad guys absolutely everywhere. And once I came out as bi and started talking about it, I realized, oh my god, they're bad guys everywhere. But there's so there's such a heavy negative connotation with the label itself. So they don't identify as it or you know, they're closeted, whatever it is. So I realized it was a voice that was really represented, or excuse me, a voice that was not represented, and really needed. And so I wrote this book. And then another big aspect of this book, and one thing I bring up, is the fact that I didn't grow up in like a sex negative household. You know, like, my parents were very sex positive. I had gay uncles, I have gay uncles on both sides of my family, my dad's side, my mom's side, I knew it was okay to be gay. And still, I had so much sexual shame. And that's just because, you know, even though I had you know, great upbringing, great parents, I picked up sex negativity from my school peers, media teachers. You know, sex negativity is so pervasive and so insidious. And so for me, it was important to be like, hey, it's not just those people who got kicked out of their house for being gay who can write this book, like, that's why they have their trauma. Like you can have a pretty good upbringing and still have so much sexual sin

And so much sex negativity. It's like, unless you live in like a polyamorous nudist commune without social media in the middle of nowhere, okay, maybe those guys don't have sexual shame but the rest of us who live in society we do. And of course, this book is kind of my journey about how I was able to really overcome that sexual shame. I really appreciate you saying that, because a lot of people wonder why do I have it? If I have gay uncles or gay parents or whatever? And it is, it's insidious. It was great work. Yeah, you say was the hardest part about reading your book? Oh, I think for me, it's reliving kind of all the people I've hurt in the past. You know, before it was out as bisexual before I knew how to communicate my desires. At a time when I thought that ghosting was the right thing that you should be doing, right? Because instead of having like, Why have an awkward conversation saying you don't like someone that's just gonna hurt their feelings, let me just not respond to them that that's the more mature response. I'm actually saving them hurt and pain. But I think reflecting on all the people I hurt again, it was not maliciously I was young, I was closeted. I was doing the best I could with the information that I had. And I was also deeply insecure and deeply ashamed. But I think reliving those moments was like, ah, like that. That sucks. And I think I was vulnerable in a way that I think people are somewhat confused by, because I am so open sexually. And I can talk about getting DP ID and my very butthole and sucking dick and gagging on it until the cows come home. And I love it. And that doesn't make me nervous or shamed. But if you like, you'll notice on my social media on my zine, I don't talk about my relationships with my parents, I don't talk about my bad breakups, I don't talk about

these other elements where I'm vulnerable. And so but people assume that just because I'm sexually open, I'm open in every other aspect of my life. And that's actually not necessarily the case. A lot more vulnerable about Yeah, my family, my past relationships, my breakups and other things that I had done.

And that was really challenging. And there are definitely parts where my editor is like, dig deeper, be more honest with yourself, like, like, lay it all out on the page. And I was like, Oh, Jesus, this is scary.

And it's so interesting to watch you do it at such a young age. Usually people do their memoirs. Like later, like, at my age, you know,

it's Oh, my God, I am in the assisted living home with my dad and his friends are 70s 80s 90s. And he said, My son has a memoir, and they look at me, and they're like, this fucking little kid. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to curse, but I just did, like, this little schmuck like he's 30 years old. Or at the time, I was 30. I'm 32. Now, but um, it's it really is a collection of essays. You know what I mean? And I think the reason why we kind of settled on memoir is just because they tend to sell better. But if you look at it as a collection of essays, that kind of makes more sense. And I mean, it's a memoir, too, but it is it is that as well. But yeah, it's like I can't write a memoir every year, maybe 10 years from now I'll write man slot and then a 10 years after that, all right, daddy slots. And that will be the fun of everything I've learned in that every decade, I get to write a new memoir.

That's great. I like it. Um, you know, you said DP, and I don't think everyone's gonna know what DP means.

So that's double penetration. In the case of my anatomy, that's two penises in my butthole.

Didn't know what that means. Yeah. All right. Thank you. My pleasure. All right. You have a chapter in the book about the impact of Grindr. Let's talk about that. And before you do, I just want to say a plug my own little thing that last year, you know, I woke up and Grindr had adopted the term side that I coined, and they put it in as a sexual preference. For top bottom first insight. Did you know that?

Yes, because I'm on Grindr. And so I usually see it and I am inside is not a small demographic. I don't know what your date like if there is like, data data on it, but it's like, it is. It is quite, it's more than 150 You know what I mean? It's more than 2% I'd really say it's one in 20. It's like 5%. And again, this is not back scientifically, but just anecdotally and from what I see, it really is not a small demographic, and it's so great that people have this word to describe it and to know that like, you know, it's not necessarily that like they have internalized homophobia or anything like that, but it's just like okay, like there's so much more to sex than penetration and being able to explore that and not have shame for and have a label for it is really important, but I've seen adopted everywhere. I think like pretty much all hookup apps now habits, I'm pretty sure.

Yeah, they do. And I know that a lot of people I have a group of besides a 7200 men are in there on Facebook. It's called side guys, and they're very, very upset about how they get treated on Grindr. And I hear them. But you know, because there's half about us and the people don't like sighs they're judgmental. I've been on Grindr myself. I'm married, I'm 30 years married, we have an open marriage. I just use it to play. And I don't feel I don't have a problem with it. Like, if somebody is mean, or they blocked me, I don't like it. But I like get over it. But you talked about it. You know, like, can you talk about it? Yeah, I

mean, it's because I think you're a little bit older, you're a little bit more mature, a little bit secure in yourself, you know, but when you're like a 25 year old or 30, and you just are getting rejected in this way it can feel it's easy to sometimes dismiss one or two people. But like, if you're on Grindr a lot, it's like the rejections just get so brutal, like so unnecessarily nasty and mean. In a way it really is exposed, like, kind of the racism, the femme phobia, the fat phobia, the transphobia the Bible, like any opportunity to other and treat people like shit gay men will do. Yeah, and gay, queer by men will do and it just like, you would think for a population that's been ridiculed and teased, that we will be kinder to other people. But it's, it's kind of that cliche, or that phrase that like hurt people hurt people. Like it's very much that and these people, it's very velvet rage, like, type dynamic, you know what I mean? We're just like these people. I know that people who are mean and nasty, like are not happy with themselves, you know what I mean? It's not like they live like happy live, like, I do want to extend them some, you know, sympathy, condolences, whatever the word is, but at the same time, like, you cannot be interested in someone and not be addicted to them. And it's just a shame how that dynamic is. And I think just over time, yeah, it can really make you feel, especially if you're not feeling desired, like, Oh, no one's gonna like me, because of my body size. No one's gonna like me, because I'm black. No one's gonna like me, because I'm HIV positive and you internalize it, you're like, I'm never going to find love, I can't even find casual sex. And so for some men, it can be really detrimental to their mental health.

It does make sense. And you're probably right about me being older. Except that as an older guy, I do take it personally. It's hard not to in when you're around gay men in real life. Like to me Grindr is a playground, it's not really a serious place to me. I had hoped. I mean, when I was your age, I started doing the end because you work for gay men. And I had hoped by the time I was 16, that things would be better. And I think they're worse. I think we're meaner to each other than we were when I was young.

I That's so sad. And you know, I can't I can't necessarily speak to that, because I don't know exactly what it was, like 30 years ago, but like, I don't know if it's just because of social media, like, like a part of me is just like that. And people feel very emboldened and empowered from the safety of their own toilet saying terrible things about people. And then that kind of extends into real life. And maybe it was the fact that we had more like physical community spaces. And that was the way we were actually meeting people. So if you're going to be Kunti, in me, and you had to say it to my fucking face, are you really going to do that? God like it is. It is sad, you know, parts of it are sad. And one thing like I've noticed, and this is something I've seen, and again, I'm, I'm logged on, largely stereotyping. Obviously, this is not all gay men. And of course, they're gay men who have a healthy relationship with their identity, who treat people with respect, who are kind of a great relationship with sex. Like, I don't want to make it like I don't want to perpetuate any stereotypes. But it was interesting about moving to New York, is you had a lot of gay guys who got you know, like, from bumblefuck, Idaho, or whatever got kicked out of their family for being gay had a really traumatic upbringing, and really a lot of homophobia from the church, from their family from their community. And they moved to New York, and but they haven't actually worked on themselves. No, they haven't actually put in the work to deal with their trauma. So they're still, yes, you're in a place where there's significantly less homophobia, there are gay spaces, gay scenes, but still, they are insecure still, they respond very poorly to rejection, because they've been rejected their whole whole life. So if they get rejected sexually, they can lash out and be angry because it reminds them of their parents who rejected them in a different field. And it's like moving to New York, it's just not enough, you still have to work on yourself, you still have to get into therapy, you still have to look at the root of your problem. Otherwise, you're going to be passive aggressive or just blatantly aggressive to your friends in a way and that's not that's not what chosen family is about. That's not what community is all about. So of course, I'm always encouraging everyone to get into therapy all the time to work on these issues, but I just noticed that and again, I noticed this among you know, this the 18 to 25 year old demographic, right and I think over time as they get older and they mature and they have a sense of themselves. You know, they can be become less mean and more secure and who they are. But yeah, it was really frustrating when I moved to New York and I was trying to make gay friends and like you guys are mean, fun. I'm not enjoying this.

You know, it's so weird, I'm so glad listening to you is sounds like me when I was. So whenever my book I was 40 tend to buy things gay men can do to improve their lives. And I did my own book tour. And I had the exact same experience, people that back then didn't know what internalized homophobia was where a lot of guys know that now from social media, but they hadn't. I was like, why is my book I'm from Detroit, Michigan. I wasn't some cosmopolitan guy. And I but I spoke about gay issues. And it was popular, like bookstores were back then. Right? So my books were in the windows and everything. And people said, Just because we've moved to New York, or San Francisco or wherever Chicago doesn't mean that we came healed. We brought our unfinished business. And we didn't just like you just said, older guys, too. And I mean, I was 40 at the time. But now what you're saying, which may some, you know, we're just anecdotally talking, if it's the younger guys still horrible, but at least it's the more of the younger guy. And now.

Yeah, and I think we do have, yeah, no, it's definitely not all gay men. And you know, and I have managed to find my chosen family, my people, and I have gay friends, queer friends, by friends, trans fans, you know, it's a very queer community of people who are supportive and loving. And it's now that I found that it's absolutely incredible. I was, but it just took me a little bit of time to get there and to and to find these people who have been working on their trauma and their issues and are aware that like, Oh, this is my baggage that I need to unpack and let me not project it and put it on other people.

We don't have gay grandpa's. We don't have gay elders. You know, it really

is so sad. And I think about that a lot. And how lucky I am, that I have gay uncles who, yeah, like who lived in Provincetown, they just moved now to like, Western Mass, but like I was able to go to Provincetown during the summer asleep on an air mattress, and it gets to explore my, uh, you know, sexuality, but also have these older gay uncle's to talk to. And of course, because of the HIV AIDS epidemic, we've lost so many men also, just because we weren't allowed to get married the same way to just to see a couple that still in a relationship for 30 years, because, you know, so many gay men didn't aspire to marriage because marriage wasn't feasible, we couldn't have it. So I was very lucky and feel so blessed to have had these kinds of gay elders and these gay mentors that I can talk to about this by No, so many younger gay men don't. But I think we're getting there. And you know, I hope you know, 1015 years from now or whatever age that I will get to be that queer you know, mentor for the younger game by men.

You coined the phrase bisexual audibility in your book, tell me what it means and why it's so important. Oh, absolutely.

So I talked about visibility in the book and a little bit of my frustration with that word. I feel like often visibility is like hailed as a like panacea, where it's just like, oh, we just need more visibility. And that will solve all social inequity, and all racial issues and all gender issues and all sexuality issues. And for me, like visibility is just the first step it is the bare minimum, it is showing that like we are real, we exist. And we want some goddamn respect as a marginalized group. And it's also for that marginalized group to recognize that they are not alone, right, there are other people like them, by specifically talking about bisexual visibility being a little bit more challenging, because unless if you have a man on your right arm, a woman on your left arm and a non binary person on your third arm and you're all making out simultaneously, you can't be bisexual, visible. And while that sounds like an ideal quad for me, I know that's probably not what most bisexual people are looking for. But you know, when you're a guy in a relationship with a guy, you're perceived as gay a guy in relationship with a woman you're perceived as straight. So because visibility is very different for bisexual people, like what we need to do is actually have bisexual audibility, which I coined, which is just means being as loud and obnoxious as humanly possible talking about bisexuality, because we can't, you can't tell whereby by looking at us, that means we have to say it, we have to claim the label, we actually have to use it. And it's just so important, because right now by people are significantly less likely to be out to their family, their friends, their partners than gay and lesbians. And, you know, we know all of the negative mental health outcomes and physical health outcomes that actually come from being closeted, and feeling like you don't have a community. So the way for bisexual people to have a community to feel accepted, to feel embraced is to talk about it and to start coming out and yeah, so I really encourage people to use the word if they feel it's right for them.

Yeah, no, I love it. Now, one thing I do want to ask you because you know you sent me a pack and I got your book and I got that dildo. And it's it's the colors of the bisexual flag right? Yes.

Yes. So I should I have a limited edition dildo with Fun Factory called the by a more and it comes with yeah it is. It's in the colors of the bisexual flag. It is sadly it is not a mold of my penis. I really asked them to do that. Apparently that cost him more money and was a pain in the ass. But this is a very fun dildo for for everyone. all genders all bodies. Here.

You have it at home. I posted about it and people were like, what makes it a bisexual dildo? So can you tell us?

It just because of the colors? Right? No, like, it's not actually no, I mean, everyone has a butthole you know, and I mean, that's regardless of sexual orientation, gender, whatever. So anyone, anyone can put in their butthole. But that's why it's just because of the color. So yeah,

I didn't want to answer that. I said, I think it's just the colors, but I'll ask him when I do it. Yes. All right. So the next one is in your book, you do talk a lot about bisexual visibility and sexual autonomy. Can you share a little bit about those two subjects?

Sure. So I spoke a little bit about bisexual visibility, but in terms of like sexual autonomy. I have a chapter about you know I'm on PrEP. And how I don't use condoms with a lot of men, right. And especially if you are in New York City, and you're on grinders, or grinder sniffers, or scruff, like the vast, vast majority of queer men are not using condoms. And I talk about how we all have a different level of risk when it comes to STIs. Right, some people are much more STI averse. In that way, getting, you know an STI, they really do not want to get an STI. Some people, it's not that big of a deal, especially you know, if they're on PrEP, they know they're not going to get HIV, the rest can be treated with antibiotics, or you know, if it's a viral infection, like, you know, so many people have herpes anyway. But essentially, it's like, either it's manageable, or we can treat it with antibiotics. And so I really think it's important for us to be allowed to choose what our level of risk is. But what's important when discussing this, and I compare it to I use, I kind of take from kink culture. And I talk about RAC, which is risk aware consensual kink. And so what kind of this philosophy is, is when you do kink, you know, you are very aware of the risks, and you do your best to mitigate it. So like, if you are getting tied up, you have a pair of safety shears nearby, just in case it cuts off circulation. You know, you have a safety word, when you have sex, if you're doing choke play where you can't speak, you have a safety action. So but even though you have these things in place, you still are acknowledging a risk, there's still a risk that you're allowed to take. And so I kind of want to Oh, sorry. And one thing that RAC is very contingent upon is having the correct information and education, right, you can't make a decision unless if you have all the information available to you, which is why it's important to be honest, it's important to know how STIs affect your body, which STIs are treatable with STIs, you know, are actually protected when wearing condoms, you know, you can still get syphilis or herpes, because that's from skin, the skin contact, you can still get oral and gonorrhea and oral chlamydia if you don't wear a condom, and so like, really what I'm advocating for is being allowed to, you should be able to have all the information you have and then you can make the decision for what how you want to engage in sex. And I think it's very important. And I think and part of this chapter, I really spoke about STI shaming and how like, it's just so pervasive. And the fact that we say it's gross, that means people don't get tested. People don't people lie when they have STIs. And it further causes more and more STIs. And even, you know, the move away from calling them STDs to STIs because you know sexually transmitted diseases versus sexually transmitted infections. It's like gonorrhea is a bacterial infection, you don't call strep, which is a bacterial infection, a disease. That's the way we stigmatize it, and also just the history of STDs. It's just so racist and homophobic. Do you know what I mean? Like especially how we use like HIV to justify and aids to justify homophobia to justify racism. So yeah, I know, I'm kind of rambling here, but really, this chapter was about, you know, making sure that you are informed and you're educated, you're being honest and being able to decide the level of risk that you want to take with, of course, the consent of your partners.

I think it's important you're sharing this because people when they see memoir, they're not sure they're going to learn about your life. But are they going to learn about information too, and facts, and you do put that in there, so it's great.

Yeah, but I got a lot of hate hatred for this. I think especially it was fun. Um, people, not queer men, because queer men, you know, aren't wearing condoms the same way. So I think people, some, like straight people were very surprised to learn, you know, the lack of condom usage in metropolitan cities that have Grindr and whatnot. Yeah. And it's like, I'm not advocating for you to not wear condoms. That's, of course, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, I want you to be educated about the risks. And if you make this informed decision yourself with the consent of your partner, that's a decision that you're allowed to make. But people were just like, Oh, my God, Zach's Cavalier anti condom use. And I'm like, I have more conversations about my sexual health and my condom use with my partners than fucking anyone than people who are wearing condoms. I want to make sure people are aware of the risks, I make sure people know that I am high risk, you know, like, like, if there's something that you are very STI averse, then we should definitely be wearing condoms, or potentially not having sex at all, like, but it was just it was very surprising. Maybe not surprising. But just like the level of animosity where I'm like, if you want to, of course, you should wear condoms. That is your choice. I'm advocating for choice here.

And now it's a culture now where you say something and you know, you're dangerous because you said it, or you didn't say it right. Or you didn't? I don't know. But I want to ask you something. And since you're on here, so you know, I monosexual, right. I'm a gay man. Bisexual, I'm a little bit fluid. As I've gotten older, I don't know how fluid I really am. But I'm more fluid than I was. I was at a party one time and the woman was wearing a zipper dress in the front. And I swear I was 50 years old. 10 years ago, and I've never, ever had this thought. I thought the whole night of of wanting to unzip that trash. And I don't even know what I would have done. I was around while turned on. And it really freaked me out. I had to go back to a therapist I worked with for trauma work. As a young guy, they thought I was gay because I was sexually abused by a woman. And so they thought, well, maybe that's why you're gay. And I'm like, so I'm like, Is this coming under my latent heterosexual? Am I gonna have to leave Mike and my books are off. It was great. To bring all that up, because I am an educator. So I like to talk about all the LGBT. When I talk about bisexuals, you have no idea that kind of hate the kind of horrible, shitty horrible and could you put? I don't know, I mean, I kind of understand it, but maybe you could speak to what

it really is, like, people really love to shit on us. It's it, I think it's this idea that we're not genuinely a part of the community and that we can choose to be, you know, like, for me, I can choose to be with a woman and therefore have a much easier life. Like in their minds. It's like, okay, well, you can be with a woman you're not gonna be discriminated against. You don't have to worry about coming out. You don't have to worry about these things. So you don't understand our struggle. And because you don't understand our struggle. You're not part of the LGBT community. Fuck you. I hate you. Yeah. And it's so sad to me that your experience with oppression and marginalization discrimination is what validates your queer identity, where it's like, you should not be you know, like, you're not more queer or gay or because you've been a victim of a hate crime. It's so sad. And of course, you know, bisexual people, if you are in like a straight passing relationship. Yeah, of course, you need to check your privilege. I understand that when I walked down the street holding hands with a woman I'm not afraid the way I am walking down the street holding hands with a man which I do check over my shoulders, you know what I mean? To make sure nothing's gonna happen. Um, so like, I think it's this idea that oh, bisexual people have it easy. They don't hover under understand our struggle. I think there's also some fear of sexual rejection. Or it's like, oh, I'm dating a man, or, especially like with lesbians are lesbians and by women in particular, were just like, oh, they they're going to leave me for a man. And then they get lesbians are particularly mean to by women in this reading. And so I think there's this fear of being left and being feared having a straight life. And yeah, so I think that's a large part that contributes to kind of this bisexual hatred, although we're starting to see, I think changes. I think we're also because we're just starting to embrace a level of fluidity in sexuality. So even I have gay friends who have been gay for 2030 years identify as such haven't had sex with a woman, they're in their 40s 50s. And they're so excited to have sex with a woman and like, and I have these men coming out as bi to me, and they're like, you know, when I was coming out 20 years ago, like bisexuality wasn't an option. You were gay or straight because I was more effeminate. And because I knew I loved men, and I'm predominantly attracted to men. I said I was gay. And that's been my life. And now that I realized that bisexuality is an option, I actually want to engage with women in this way. And it's so interesting getting those questions from these older gay men who are kind of realizing it. But then also I Think there's this fear also with bisexuality, that like, kind of like Republicans and conservatives are going to use it against us where they're like, and that's and we've already seen that with fluidity to like, oh, look, see these gay guys can be straight after 20 years. It's like no, that's not what we're advocating for. And fluidity doesn't mean we can force this you know, force being straight and neither would I want to force being straight. I like being we're I like dating men. Um, so I think there's also some hesitation to almost acknowledge fluidity exists, because it's going to be ended up being used against us, which is unfortunate.

What would be we have to almost come to a close, what would be a final message that you would want listeners to hear about you your book, anything?

Oh, my God, life is so much more fun and enjoyable, if you can help reduce sexual shame. And I feel like the really, they're kind of two tips I have for this overarching tips, you know, for this. And the first one is I always like to think when I'm experiencing shame of any type, like, Who or what is trying to control me, because shame is a tool that people in position of power use to control the masses, you know what I mean? So like, we slept shame women to uphold a patriarchy to keep them tethered to men, you know, I sometimes feel guilty or shame when I don't work hard enough. And that's just kind of like, like, if I'm not working 6080 hours a week. And that's just a brilliant tool of capitalism, you know what I mean, then they use shame to get me to keep working harder and harder and harder and never taking a break. So often, when I'm like, when I think of who or what is trying to shame me and kind of making it this external entity, I'm able to realize that oh, this is actually not coming from me or within this is not my thought, belief. This is someone else, I'm able to create that distance that's really important for me. And then the second thing is the importance of finding a queer community and having that friend group because I think shame really exists and thrives in isolation. Right? When you are alone, and you have no one to talk to you and you can quickly have a negative spiral down about how you're a bad person or a disgusting person or a sick person, when you're able to actually talk to someone and get that support in this community to lean on. That has been one of the best ways for me to help overcome my sexual shame. So know that I'll leave you with those tidbits of wisdom here but yeah, boys slide a memoir manifesto is sold anywhere books are sold, you can buy it on Amazon, it is one word because if it was to word it would have caused trouble because of that Slipknot, but because it's one word, it's a made up word. So that's why it is even though it looks like it's two words on the book. Like it actually has to be written as one word because otherwise, sex negativity, you know what I mean? But um, yeah, like I this book, it really is for all queer people, queer men, by men, by women, queer PLA, alternative people. I talk a lot about polyamory. In it, I talk, a lot of kinks, wild kinks and crazy things in it. It is raunchy, it's explicit. And I really hope you guys pick up a copy.

And what can they find you? Sure.

So my website is Zachary zayn.com. Or I'm on Instagram at Zachary Zane underscore. Those are probably the two best ways to contact me and stay in touch with my work.

I love your Instagram. I'm telling you. That's where I was like, it's just fun. You're having fun. You're doing this and then there's Oh, just like all over the place. And I love it. Oh,

thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Joe.

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on my, my podcast and for joining me today on smart tech smart love and you can hear more on my podcast at Smart sex smart love.com. You can also follow me on Twitter, Tik Tok. And by the way, I have 660,000 followers now and it's growing Instagram and Facebook and you can go to Dr. Joe ford.com. And or if you go to any of my social media, it's at Dr. Joe CT. Thanks for listening. And until next time,

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